let’s talk about autotune and produced performances
oNe TaKe RaW SeSsiON LiVe PErFoRMance
TIMESTAMPS:
00:00 – Intro
01:24 – Wings of Pegasus
03:28 – Autotune
06:26 – Did the Beatles use Autotune?
07:02 – Producing other instruments vs vocals
08:25 – Live performances
10:22 – My conflict
11:15 – “One-take raw performances”
12:15 – Phil’s take vs Fil’s take
13:00 – EDM, other genres
15:26 – The new benchmark?
17:24 – Are music nerds cursed?
19:00 – What’s an artist’s job?
20:11 – Final thoughts (or lack thereof)
Wings of Pegasus Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@UCEHCXnggyvkw1uaTChZ_kuA
IG @phil.zer0
philzeroyt@gmail.com
let’s talk about autotune and produced performances
#vocalsonly #singing #vocals #singingvsreality #singingcover #reaction #autotune #melodyne #vocalist #vocalcover
#lets #talk #autotune #produced #performances
Originally posted by UCgBEqqtT2Obocux-OO_P4gg at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zMMNWwrqrI
Rock dude here. Phil, thanks for all your excellent videos! (TWA FTW!) When I go to a concert I expect the artists to perform live, no trickery like miming or playback if there are people on the stage wielding the instrument in question. It's fine if they have a filler backing track with recordings of that they can't have while on tour like choirs and the like. Also things that happen in live performances just add character. Labels should not rob us of that with their pitch correcting antics. Rock on! It's Warning Wednesday!
Another famous protest was when the Mamas and Papas were forced to lip-sync for TV, and Michelle ate a banana during the performance.
Very late to the party here, but I think you and Fil are closer than you think. I really feel Fil's point is that it's the dishonesty that's ruining music – he says he doesn't really hate on the tools, they are tools and they have their uses, particularly in the studio. He only really gets exercised when there's apparent deception. And I think you feel the same way. If you're telling everyone that you're doing it live and unaltered and you're not, that's bad and wrong. Otherwise, whatever!! It's a show!
Puedes reaccionar a esta canción?
I think, when a performance is perceived as being "live", then at some point the producer/venue/artist needs to declare to the audience what parts are not live, or being altered during the performance. This declaration wouldn't be shoved down your face, but accessible. This should be govt enforced with significant fines. Basically, transparency. Just like your software license agreement, you can read it or not, but must be provided.
If people want to use whatever tricks are available to achieve the sound they're after, then I don't have any issue with that as long as they aren't to fool anyone. But I probably won't be buying their records. Anyway, how is that Harry Mack reaction coming along? More importantly, we need to get Ashlena to react to Devin Townsend! I'm counting on you to help me apply pressure. Just assuming that as a metal vocalist from Vancouver that you know Devin and maybe you don't because there's just so much music now it's impossible to know even one percent of what's happening. If you don't know him, then maybe you could do a reaction! That would be awesome. Deadhead live at Royal Albert Hall!
Same arguments about musical track use. Purists insist any track use is cheating. They don't realize that consumers want to hear the best versions of their favorite songs, not stripped down 3 piece versions. Neither can bands afford to bring separate musicians to play a random bar or 2 every 20, 30 minutes and sit there on stage the whole show.
How about channels that lie?
how do i feel, i dunno. but (and yes twa here) i should say I've never subscribed to a reactor channel. until now.
ibwatch ABBA concert in YT because they one of my favorite but their wembley concert seems like lip sync ????????????
I think the biggest thing for me is being honest about it. Don't lie to the fans and say you didn't when you did. Just be honest about it.
We are talking about entertainment, not rocket science.
I believe there are two frames to look through: the business of music, and the ART of music. one prefers salability, the other uniqueness
Hey Philberto great vid and thanks for wearing my Piece Of Mind shirt. (Don't worry I have others!) Ironically I was watching the Live After Death DVD last night and you can hear right away on Aces High that Bruce couldn't quite hit the high notes. But it's still there on the live performance, warts and all.
Besides, most rock n roll singing is pretty much 'screaming on pitch'. Take John Lennon for example. His vocals on Twist And Shout are the epitome of rock n roll singing, and his influence is everywhere. (Ozzy, Alice, Noddy, Liam, etc.) Obviously you can't compare it to Steve Perry for example, but you get the idea.
That's why I have no problem with live cellphone vids. It's raw, it's real, it's imperfect. As musicians we know NO performance is gonna be perfect, and I'm ok with that!????⚡
I am a big fan of Dir en Grey and The Gazette. Both vocalists from these bands had in their careers this one concert live, when they were ill and their voices sounded awful. The only thing I was mad about is that they didn't cancel to recover instead of straining themselves even more. I get it that it's not so simple with the contracts and all that jazz, so it is what it is. These concerts were still good, because the rest of the band members delivered, so no harm done (except for health of both vocalists, that is).
So I prefer to hear imperfections and mistakes, because live performances are so much more than vocals. It's probably worse for one (wo)man shows, so it's ok to use some tools. Anyway, I don't want to be a destroyer of fun for others, so I don't mind autotune and others things if other people enjoy that. I just prefer to hear singers as they are (maybe because the vocalist of Dir en Grey has been destroying my ears with strange notes, ugly vocals and off-key singing on purpose for too long and I still love it, who knows). Just don't lie to people about your vocals and we're good.
Some types of vocal expression are the soul of /some/ types of music and are IMO killed by correction. Pitch correcting vocals for a quick Bee Gees cover could even improve things, but Alicia Keys? Ella? I bet if the 2013 Waken Ghost Love Score were tuned it would be boring, because I suspect that Floor messes with pitch to convey emotions. There's a part where listeners wrinkle their noses, and I sorta wonder if it isn't intentionally a tad sharp. One vocal reactor noted that Floor must've been pissed when they "corrected" her in the end of Phantom on Beste Zangers — the reactor noticed the lifeless pitch right away. I agree with Rick Beato who said Adele's Easy on Me was so powerful in part because it felt "real" because it wasn't pitchly perfect.
If I flatted one or two notes in a studio session, it may save money to fix that in post than to record another take, and one or two notes corrected won't ruin the feelings of the story. But it seems like correction is often heavy handed — just turn it on and let it flatten everything. Fil notes that correction plugins are getting knobs to allow and perhaps even introduce some pitch imperfection — what a strange world.
In Strawberry Fields they sped up one of the tracks in order to make it the same speed as another track it immediately followed. It also had the effect of pitching up the track (as it needed to due to the speed change). However, that is not the same as pitch correction software now.
I’m that grumpy old guy.
What’s Edm.
????The artists I want to support know how to sing, play their instrument(s), write, and compose. Top tier for me is Morgan James, or Larkin Poe, or Samantha Fish, or The Warning; there's no question those folks are honest about creating their art and have the skills to do a live show that's just as good as their albums. I'm also fine with artists like Nayri the Witch, who do everything themselves, including using AI tools to create their music videos. The key is that they are what they say they are.
The main goal of a vocalist is to be on pitch. Auto tune in any way of use is an abomination, it is not true to nusic is about
You now what really makes me mad? That those highly autotunned "on purpose" artists doesn't even make the effort to sound moderately good or to even pronounce something understandable and they call themselves singers or musicians
I'm so glad to be that grumpy old guy
Having an artist live make a small mistake or have a small mishap, and recover from it makes them closer to the audience, they are human and incredible. The sound may not be perfect, but there is a sense of sharing a unique experience. The authenticity of the artist is what makes me feel more connected.
If the artist can be replaced by a screen with a film, I feel like I have been stolen of part of this human, sharing experience.
If the artist genre is about performing and dancing on stage, then I would go to see the performance.
But if the moral contract with the artist is broken, it is the trust placed by the fan in the artist that can be lost.
Fun fact, Fil is part Norwegian and that is why his name is spelled the way it is. It's the Norwegian spelling of Phil.
While I agree with portions of your analysis, one item appears to be missing – lip syncing a Live Concert Performance. In my opinion that is Not an effect – that is fraud! I thought that after the Milli Vanilli scandal in the late 80's nobody would do it again. I will use "Due Diligence" to select authentic and practiced professionals such as "The Warning"and "Pink".
Hello Phil! Been a fan for a while through the The Warning videos. I'd like to see if you could react to Unravelling By Muse, their new single? I don't know what your experience with Muse is but this one is really REALLY interresting and I bet that it would change how you see them! Some says that it's the heaviest Muse song ever. It is their first song with an 8 string guitar without saying too much, also featuring some holy-like feeling vocals. Other people have done reaction videos to it, but none of them are as good as you would be ahah! I don't know if I'll annoy you with another comment in your next video in case you don't see this so sorry in advance ;).
OK Phil you asked for it. As an older citizen I grew up with music from the 60's and 70's. When your first concert as a teenager is Bob Seger and the Silver Bullet Band, that becomes your standard. With Bob there was no vocal tricks or backing tracks everything was 100% live and it sounded better than the recorded version because there was more emotion in his voice, did he hit every note perfectly, no but is was still great. Fast forward to 1983 and going to a Billy Squier and Queen concert. Billy Squier, like Bob was 100% live with great vocals. Queen opens their set with backing track of Flash Gordon, then the band came on stage and joined in the song live. Then while performing Under Pressure there was a backing track of David Bowie. That is when we had enough and walked out. I love The Warning, but I would prefer it if they took out the backing tracks. I don't think most of us would even realize they wasn't there when they perform live. I guess what I am saying is, if I can't see the person providing the vocal or extra instrument, like the drum parts while Pau is singing and stops playing but you still here the drum track, I don't want to here it live. That is when the performance becomes fake and I am not going to pay good money to see a fake performance. I can watch videos for free if I want that.
Sylvan Esso is a really cool band to see live if you get a chance. From what I could tell he runs everything from scratch live.
Wow! So glad my man Phil has an opinion aligned with my beliefs! ????????????⚡️ I’m a 51 year old libertarian musician and also a diehard fan of The Warning, and I can’t agree more with your view: I don’t care about what others musicians do, I only care about my music and my work being honest. If people like other artists using autotune, that’s fine with me because that doesn’t hurt me at all! Music is about enjoying and having fun no matter how it’s done. Do I use autotune or like autotune? No! But I have no right to influence others’ lives, period. ???? Gracias desde Monterrey, Phil. ????????????????????????
Honesty is really the key thing, and sometimes that can be hard because it involves meeting expectations. Like you said, at a live EDM show, the audience likely assumes a lot of it is just a recording, but that's okay because that's the assumption. No deception occurs. But at a rock show, it's expected that all the musicians are playing live. So, if the rock band mimics or lip syncs, it will feel like a break of trust. On another note, I personally don't like the sound of autotune when it's used as an audio affect. But that's just me. It's totally clear and obvious when it's used that way, so there's no deception, and if the audience loves it, then it's fine. It's just not for me.
My thoughts are music is music no matter how it's produced. Enjoy the sound not how it's produced.