Jerry Garcia Tone: Envelope Filter Shootout
Hey, fellow nerds – I’m making this my return to Youtube!
As you know, I’ve been obsessed with the Jerry Garcia tone rabbithole for well over 6 years now, and part of that rabbithole involves making random comparison videos…I got the idea to do an envelope filter shootout when several kind friends in my facebook group offered to loan me their envelope filter pedals to make this demo – I wanted to do more, initially, but 13 minutes of content with just 4 pedals felt like plenty.
I’m comparing my favorite settings across 4 of the most common pedals for people chasing Jerry Garcia’s envelope filter sound. This is not the gospel, merely a take – these settings are what work best with my rig. I use the Micro-QTron in Band Pass mode as opposed to the others in Low Pass, as the low pass is unusably bassy on the Micro-QTron for some reason.
If I had all the time in the world, I would have gone into further depth, but that’s what growth is for. Enjoy and let me know what you’d like to see in future comparisons! Thanks!
Timestamps:
Estimated Prophet:
Vintage Mu-Tron: 0:19
MuTron Micro-Tron III: 0:50
EHX Micro Q-Tron: 1:19
EHX Q-Tron+: 1:47
Fire On The Mountain:
– Vintage Mu-Tron: 2:16
– MuTron Micro-Tron III: 2:45
– EHX Micro Q-Tron: 3:29
– EHX Q-Tron+: 4:04
Shakedown Street/Noodles:
– Vintage Mu-Tron: 4:40
– MuTron Micro-Tron III: 6:36
– EHX Micro Q-Tron: 8:38
– EHX Q-Tron+: 10:21 (false start – but you get the idea)
00:00 Introduction
00:19 Vintage Mu-Tron
00:47 Micro-Tron III
01:17 Micro Q-Tron
01:47 Q-Tron+
02:16 Vintage Mu-Tron
02:45 Micro-Tron III
03:29 Micro Q-Tron
04:06 Q-Tron+
04:40 Vintage Mu-Tron
06:36 Micro-Tron III
08:38 Micro Q-Tron
10:23 Q-Tron+ with lots of mistakes
#Jerry #Garcia #Tone #Envelope #Filter #Shootout
Originally posted by UCgubtACts308lMavG6muYzw at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pymCl0qsrm4
Q tron for the win!
To me the newer mutron and the bigger qtron sounded awesome, especially qtron. But i’m teying to find out if the nano qtron worse than large one
Nice playing! Thanks for sharing this.
QTron+ enjoyer here. Run mine with an EQD Bit Commander clone in the loop for some upper octave on Fire
in order of pref – MutronIII, MicroQ, MicroMutron, Qtron But the original is the best
Update…..the Behringer mutron copy is excellent, very close to the original
Can you please answer a question for me? I’ve had a surprisingly hard time getting a straight answer on this… what, exactly, is the difference between an “envelope filter” and an “auto-wah ”??? I ask this largely because there were GD shows in 1985 and 1986 where 100% for SURE Garcia had a BOSS “T-Wah” on stage with him. I’ve never heard people talk about it, but it was there. I saw it. At Kaiser in November 1985, the NYE run in 1985 and at some early shows in 1986. Please advise!!
No Analog man? Ive been using one for a while and love it.
Sounds great ! What kind of guitar and pickup selection are you using for these?
Some nice playing!
I think the Plus is the one for me.
More knobs!
I own a 2nd gen Musitronics Mutron III. The only difference between it and the first gen pedal is that it has an internal power supply. I sold my first gen unit long ago. The connection between the power supply and pedal was a very strange and arcane 3 pin male plug – easily broken…..
The closest clone I have found is functionally the same as the Mutron III. It's the Ibanez AF-9 (Autofilter).
I bought mine at a music shop in Harvard Square in the summer of 1982 and I still own and play it. Sometimes I use both the AF-9 and the Mutrion III on my board and to boot I hae an All Muse Macro-Dose which does not do a good emulation of the Garcia envelope thing but is great for adding vowely texture to chords…..;. YMMV
What about the Keelel neutrino?
I'd pay just hear you jam these out to completion. No band, no one else would be stellar.
In this particular comparison with these settings, it was all over after Estimated Prophet. The original sounds just like Jerry, with all the others coming in flat, compressed, or a combination of both. The headspace and fullness of the original is like comparing a DAT to a CD when listening to the others.
Thanks for this excellent video….. !
Killer playing!!! Great video
Man the OG is just so good, they’re all really solid tho! You ever try the 3Leaf Proton or Emma Electronics Discombobulator?
I have the Micro Tron IV…sooper dooper pooper scooper…
The QTron+ would have sounded better with the response on fast, on par with the Microtron III which sounds a bit faster that the muTron. Micro QTron has alot of problems. Slow, not sharp enough on the sweep. Drive not high enough for unwound strings. Would have liked to see a Mini Q-Tron in the test. I think its better than the current Q-Tron+ and has more presence and skank on the sweep and snappier on the decay. MicroTron III just ahead of the MuTron. Mini Q-Tron over the QTron+.
The micro qtron is a 9v and the + is 24?
The + sounds better between the two here.
Is that your opinion?
Is it worth dealing with the 24 power supply or the 9volt is fine?
Your comments are appreciated!!!????
Just curious, does your guitar have the OBEL built in? I'm wondering how the envelope filter reacts to that. It can sometimes be pretty hard to dial in a good usable tone with an EF where you get that good range and sweep of tone evenly across all six strings of the guitar in my experience (I'll go ahead and mention that I have only ever used the envelope filter that is on the Helix HX Effects, so maybe I would have a better result if I used a standalone pedal, but that is just a disclaimer). I will also say that I have been able to dial in great Jerry-like tones with an EF before and understand how nuanced and precise your right hand has to be in order to get it to sound right, so I don't think it is so much an issue of my playing as it is just trying to dial it into that sweet spot.
For me, sometimes it'll be a situation where maybe the high E string has a good sweep and reaction to picking so that you have that sensitivity to get the full Jerry tone out of it, but then maybe the B and G strings don't hit that peak and reach the "quacky" sort of area of an EF like the high E string may. Then if you turn the gain up on the pedal to try and adjust in order to get a proper reaction from the previously dead-sounding strings, you may end up having the high E string then always shoot up to the very top range of the filter so that you have none of that quack and it just goes straight to the trebly bite top end of the EF for some strings while the others react how they should. I can't describe it that well, but that has just been my experience in trying to dial in an EF, if that makes any sense.
In my experience they have just been super, super sensitive to the tiniest changes on the pedal or amp where one minute you'll have the ideal Garcia EF sound going, then you slightly change anything and all of a sudden the sound is gone and back to being uneven for different strings. So does the OBEL help to even things out across all strings where you can easily adjust your pick attack to get the full range of sweep out of an EF like you should be able to get as you demonstrated here? Seems on paper that the OBEL would make it much easier to dial the pedal into that sweet spot like you have here. What is your experience in that area?
I'm surprised at all the comments saying "it's not even close." Yes, it is. It's very close. And in any kind of real playing situation it'll be close enough to be indistinguishable. Not to mention the inevitable component drift that makes every old Mutron different from the others and different from anything you've heard Jerry play on a decades old recording. I owned an original back in the day and don't miss it. So many great options available now you don't need a piece of unobtanium gear to capture the magic. The magic is in your head.
The original is the tone monster
Nothing's close to that original Mutron. It's nuts they can't replicate the circuitry.
How do you feel about Smokin Amp Co.’s envelope filter?
1) OG (juicy) 2) Microtron (hi-fi and responsive) 3)qtron + (modern and versatile) 4) qtron (very passable but not a vibe like the others)
Yeah but where can I listen to a full version of this Jack-A-Roe remix that opens the video? I could mow the entire lawn to this banger
Groovy on you for putting this together 🙂
do you think vintage mutron distort up in the neck?
Anyone tried the MXR Auto Q
you have the settings messed up on atleast a few of the pedals so its not an apples to apples comparison. you have the LP on the original sounding all smooth, and you have the micro q tron on band pass with the drive way up sounding sharp and ice picky. this would be a way better comparison if you had the settings set like you do on the original. if anyone listens to this and says the OG sounds way better/smoother its not surprising because you actually have it set like Jerry would have it set, set the other ones up similar for a legit comparison
Not even close….the vintage mutron is King
that bassy qtron+ sounded quite cool
Boy you killin' it with that sound!! I definitely dig the Micro for sure though. Again…KILLIN' IT!
great video, love the Original Mu-tron. I have the III.
After owning the tru-tron, ibanez Af, and several others, I finally aquired the original Mutron III and a Arp era Mutron III (the arp and Haz are awful, avoid) There is just no comparison to the original. They sound "similar" but when you finally plug into the original it all finally makes sense why Jerry loved that pedal. Its just a blast. The taper is also much smoother and easier to dial in the right sweep. Whereas the others seem to have a more narrow sweep sweet spot. The original is almost like its own instrument. You have to learn how to pick attack carefully to get the jerry tones. Is it worth 800$? Fraid so. That said do you want to sound identical to Jerry? It quickly exposes the skill of the player when all the same gear doesnt get the notes or fingerpicking correct . For the affordable route I like the Qtron and Ibanez best (Bob played the ibanez on shakedown) but they both sound better with a boost pedal before them.
Should add that almost all were designed by the same person Mike Beigel, so the differences must come down to unique parts sourcing, manufacturing etc.
That vintage is nasally in all the right ways… The new MuTron seems brighter but a tad truer to the original than the Q Tron. I have the Micro QTron and find it tough to dial in “set it and forget in” settings because it has so much to do with volume, other effects in chain, etc. I don’t have Obel – clearly that would help but not happening anytime soon. Anyway, when it’s as close as I can get in the Q still gets me to that place and is fun to take for a ride.
Your playing on all the Shakedown bits was phenomenal and showcases your creativity and versatility as a player – so good! Love these videos so much – keep ‘em coming!
Nice
vtg win but dang almost too sweet lol
Cool video—great sounds. Like almost everybody else I was amazed at how much more Jer the OG sounded. But after having both a Q-tron Micro and now a Nano (for the smaller size), I’m not really sure how much it honestly matters. They all sound good and do the job once you nail the pick and the settings. Again—really good playing to show them all off.
I love my mu tron 3 Mico tron . I run it with the obel with buffer and I use a comp it helps alot
I never understand how people are able to have the gain setting on their qtron+ up so high. I have to keep it almost off to not make it overload. Other than your gain settings mine is pretty much set the same though
Fantastic video!
OG Mutron III makes everything else sound horrible. I thought it would be much closer. Why can’t they just clone it exactly?
Vintage for the win!
Timestamps:
Estimated Prophet:
Vintage Mu-Tron: 0:19
MuTron Micro-Tron III: 0:50
EHX Micro Q-Tron: 1:19
EHX Q-Tron+: 1:47
Fire On The Mountain:
– Vintage Mu-Tron: 2:16
– MuTron Micro-Tron III: 2:45
– EHX Micro Q-Tron: 3:29
– EHX Q-Tron+: 4:04
Shakedown Street/Noodles:
– Vintage Mu-Tron: 4:40
– MuTron Micro-Tron III: 6:36
– EHX Micro Q-Tron: 8:38
– EHX Q-Tron+: 10:21 (false start – but you get the idea)