The Problem Every Amp Modeler Has (that can’t be solved)
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I got my hands on a killer 1974 Marshall Superlead — modded, loud, and full of attitude. So naturally, I fired it up, profiled it with the Quad Cortex, and used it as a jumping-off point to talk about the gear world today.
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#Problem #Amp #Modeler #solved
Originally posted by UCCJ56k8nBeqWLoxNa6DToAQ at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSJosW1OtAU
Great point…just replaced my old dead Line 6 M9 with the HX fx..to use with my VHT tube amp from 1995 that still works like new ????????????????????
The tech world is about 30 years ahead of you music guys here. You're telling consumers to buy the expensive analog amp. A single amp can cost more than a QC. When the real story should be "Does QC require online functionality to edit presets and load captures?"
If the answer is "no", then we'll be able to just continue using their stuff. If the answer is "yes", then you should absolutely throw shade at NDSP for that!!! There is no reason for a $1500 hardware piece to require a server connection to verify some license or whatever, it should be able to do it on device, even for the plugins, and their functionality should already be on the device through a firmware update. If they don't do it like that currently, they should promise to change to that model before shutting down the servers. That way, every QC will still function just like today forever.
this is why the Tech 21 SansAmp Classic and GT2 are just a one-and-done for me. they're old, analog, and they've stayed the same.
Hi Rhett, interesting discussion, You talk about how after 50 years that Marshall (which does sound great . . .) is still very much relevant and useful today and probably well into the future. With the C Q (or any other modeler) they're getting to the point of sounding "as good as" the original. Question is, since ultimately the goal is getting "that sound" (whatever it might be), if these modelers get there and also offer a variety of sounds (amps, effects, etc.) that satisfy ones needs, why would you ever need to update to the latest technology ? As we know technology will continue to improve year after year but just like with the Marshall (and other tube amps,) if they give you the sounds your looking for why would you need to continue spending money to update ? Just to have the latest technology ? Thoughts ? (probably a dumb question, G.A.S will never go away)???? Thanks for your video . . .
Amp modelers will never be able to put the smell of cooking vacuum tubes into your nostrils. If you're old and you know, you know. Or even if you're not old but you can afford tube amps, you probably also know.
Modelers are like EMG pickups: they can sound fantastic! They usually also lack dynamics and sound sterile. Just like audiophiles have gone back to vinyl, I’ve gone back to tubes and passive pickups.
I guess the best thing I can say about it all is: people really have got to stop romanticizing wasting thousands of dollars in equipment that can really easily be replaced by cheaper digital options!
I get the argument, and agree that some aspects of analog gear will never go out of style, but times have changed. Streaming formats killed analog media and few people want old tapes and CDs. Pro Tools killed analog studios and much of that old studio gear is still floating around unwanted. Who's still using an actual tape echo? Or, an old 100w Marshall head that's so loud it can be used for demolition. Sure, all of these things still hold some value to someone, but so do old digital devices. Things like TR-808s are commonly collected by people who are into electronic music. I think we've arrived at the point where the quality and functionality of digital is high enough that it's not easy to make them obsolete. In the future, people may want to go backwards to a previous generation of technology, such as with companies that lock you out of features that used to be free. Both sides have their merit. Mass produced digital devices do seem to lose monetary value more quickly.
I think it's more about reparability rather than analog VS digital. Vintage amps can survive 50+ years because the way they are built makes them easy to repair: standard analog components and point-to-point wiring. A significant chunk of newly produced analog gear will not age well due to complex PCBs and SMD components. Any digital gear will definitively not be repairable because even if you get a replacement chip, you won't get the firmware.
Why do you use pronouns?
The analog products are ‘obsolete’ the day they are released because they do one thing. The digital products can be updated and will always be as good as the latest update – you aren’t losing anything.
Rich musicians just can’t stand that us poors can get a good sound from a Modeler without having to buy 50k worth of gear.
It’s like fitness YouTubers hating on Ozempic.
Most tones sound great. High gain still is squishy and has top end artifacts. There still something missing.
Started playing in 91. I rode the digital wave for a good while. I have gradually stepped away from modeling. Today I have migrated as far as I can get and am now primarily playing a 1973 classical acoustic. Im poor, so I use garage band to record. It sure does beat mixing on a 4track cassette. I have a love hate relationship with tech. I remember during the Y2K scare days hearing that the gov was going to put chips in our wrists. People said over my dead body! Somehow though they have convinced us to carry them in our pockets. Being born in 80, I was pretty much born into the start of the digital age. I played Atari as a kid and remember the NES coming out. It’s crazy how far the tech has come. I still wonder if I will live to see the day when we have modeling amps built into our wrists.
Nah, all things will become obsolete when the very core of it got broken or torn down. The Marshall Amp will become obsolete when the circuitry, he tube, the speaker cones, are broken to the very last bit of it. Same as all modelers and digital profilers. Just when the company stops supporting it software-wise, it doesn't mean it will become obsolete. A Kemper is still very very much usable for most of guitarists in this world, even in 20 years for now as long as it works. It will still just sound really good. Like you said, how much more accurate the amp profiling and modelling needs to be, even now everything sounds just as good already.
Your vintage 1960 amp sounds the same as my 1960 amp capture on Quad Cortex . What’s the point ????????
Hey Rhett im wondering where you think digital interfaces come into this conversation. In some sense are they a necessary evil? The new Gen 2 apollos seem like the perfect example of something outrageously expensive that will fall victim to obsolescence in 10 years
Very true.
Oroblem with modellers is eq . Its shit. Its not modelling an original eq is amps . Noone talking about it
It's as you say and at the same time not quite… Yes a valve amp will do what it does in a 100 years (if maintained properly) and we are used to the sound of it. Yes most of digital devices, especially these modelers that try to emulate valve sound will get obsolete as newer and closer to the real thing come out. But as we know some old pieces still are here and get used. It depends on so much factors if a piece of gear remains useful and relevant. For example Lexicon PCM 70 is still used in studios and is still relevant for any mix.
So my point is it's not black and white. It's not "analog will be eternal, digital dies off another comes after it".
nobody unless they're a long time guitar player has any idea your using as modeler, you shouldn't be playing for other guitarists, play for the majority of your audience who know nothing about amps or modelers the difference in sound is negligible
I have Roland products and I feel you about obsolescence. I got a Boss Katana Gen 3 Amp and a Katana Go Practice Amp.
Each of these can operate without being connected to the Boss sound cloud, but if I want to make use of that awesome tone library, I think everything had to be updated to Gen 3. So one day, when Gen 4 comes out, I may not replace my Amp but I will have to figure out how to preserve my saved files. Maybe Roland will grandfather the older stuff, I don’t know (novice here) but I’m going to find out.
I’m going to look at how Boss is doing it with the old Katana Mark 2
Haven’t watched the video yet. But is it that an amp modeller doesn’t sound like the amp??
Why would digital gear get obsolete any differently than analog gear? How is it different from advances in analog gear? A lot of people still want the "old school" analog gear even though they are technologically inferior and have less features/more quirks vs. "new" analog gear.
I don't think every modeller will become obsolete. By that logic, old synthesizerswould become obsolete as well. I'm not a fancy guitar player. I play to get a sound—a flavor—perhaps, more than it matter how I got the sound with what. I can see a day (and it might alreadt be here) when people want that "early-2000s" sound of an original POD. Seriously. Who would have though people would be dumpster diving for anciant toy Casios to sample, etc. Sound is a texture and how that texture is achived is 100% in the ears of the player/producer/whatever.
I think in the past this was more true, because digital effects and modeling just weren't very good. And a lot of the e-waste was because they became outdated.
Modeling is good now. Even if it gets better, I think switching gear will be more out of boredom and curiosity rather than "oh god this sounds waaayyy better".
Still can't beat the repairability of an amp or pedal though.
Ignoring that the data isn’t stored solely on the device? The value isn’t only in the physical sense
One thing that I've noticed personally with these modelers is that they don't seem to be great at the volume control thing. When I play through my tube amps, I can have a very high gain tone and roll off the volume and suddenly have a slight break up clean or even straight up clean. For my needs, that is almost unusable. I love doing swells and with VSTs and digital stuff, it just doesn't feel right….at least yet.
Everything is about getting the tones that you heard someone else get. Face it, there’s a few people like Jimmy Page, Jimi Hendrix, Stevie Ray, Eddie VH, etc.. Who got the ULTIMATE TONES from this classic gear, and almost everyone has been chasing those sounds ever since. These tones were perfected by those guys and it’s still kind of a mystery how exactly they achieved that. But we all continue to try. And that’s the fun of it! Do the best you can and enjoy life!!