How to set the optimal input level for amp sim plugins!
Up to date version of the table with values here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1bZHaapCiCg4RLIFqTS5KyUUVa4MwaqfxRCYk35Bvdrs/edit?usp=sharing
Apologies for the boring nature of this video. Often the most boring subjects are the most overlooked, and its commonly things that can make a huge difference to how we use this gear.
This is a subject that isn’t really discussed much, and getting accurate numbers from developers can be a challenge in itself.
Big love and respect to the companies who’ve responded to my approaches and been really helpful. Some companies don’t want to offer any values (they just say dial it in to what sounds good to you), which isn’t a position I agree with (I feel like its important for an emulation plugin to give an accurate response to using the real gear). I hope over time this information becomes more readily available and better understood, because developers and users all benefit.
Please understand – I am not saying this is the only way to use amp sims and any other way is wrong. I ABSOLUTELY believe in going with whatever sounds best, whether its accurate or not. But I also think that if you know what the correct level is (as in the level its designed to be used with) then you can always adjust for more or less level beyond there. If you are just guessing from the start, you could be using the models in a totally unrealistic range (kind of like stacking boost or attenuation pedals before the amp without knowing). This knowledge takes NOTHING away and only gives you more to work with for a better experience.
Hope everyone finds this helpful, and please leave any questions below.
#set #optimal #input #level #amp #sim #plugins
Originally posted by UCXaFSqGvIQ-1ucgKMszNiFw at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXKZqJtjLkg
CONFIRMATION FROM NEURAL DSP:
1 Vp = 0.707 VRMS = -0.79 dBu equals -13 dBFS in the digital domain
This means, for accurate gain levels for NDSP plugins, if you have a UAD apollo, set your instrument input gain to 0 and you are perfectly set with plugin gain at 0.
Also, as i am using Focusrite scarlett 2i2 4th gen on instr input it boosts with 7db and cant be lowered. Is that means that i dont need to boost input gain of plugin and even need to decrease some db instead? Or -7db in trim plugin before an amp, than add this boosts from your input gain list?
My interface have 12dbu, will i get 14dbu if ill use trim plugin before an amp and do -2 db on it?
I'm confused- so the waveform supposed to pretty much totally blank now, since the input is set so low? Is there any way to counteract that?
This method is only for passive pickups, or for active too?
I dont understand what DBU is, its like a unit to measure voltage? So how am i supposed to figure out what +16dbu means in relation to the knob on the input? cant the chart just say decibels instead of dbu?
Fantastic work, thank you! Half of YouTube has now picked up on this and is now selling it as the big news. I was constantly asking myself what is all the fuss about NAM, it sounds horrible. Now that is the answer.
However, another problem remains. With clean tones, e.g., Neural DSP Tone King, and the rest of the system set to "reasonable" volume levels, the sound is still not impressive. Only when I crank the overall volume of the system up do these clean sounds come out right and sound as they are intended to do. But if I forget to turn down when switching to YouTube, it will be extremely loud. When I just use the output volume adjustment in the Neural DSP, it will still overdrive the sound. Is there another trick to make clean sounds nice at very low volumes?
Hi Ed, thanks for all the work you did to clear this up for SO many people. Question though: the specs for my interface (Behringer UMC404HD) say Mic: -4 dBu / Line: +20 dBu / Instrument: -3 dBu. Am I right in assuming that that means the dBu at minimum gain would be 17 dBu on the instrument setting? It would seem odd to increase the gain by 15.2 dB in NDSP plugins! 😛
anybody know the values for guitar Rig 7? thanks!
@eds4754 hello my friend, i have question, i set this input level gain to 0 in my focusrite 4th gen, but with my emg 81 interface is still clipping when am punch on strings so hard, how to solve dis problem? Im set height of emg on bridge to 3mm under lastfretted 6th string
What about AmpliTube?
Thanks Ed! I record via Rupert Neve DI into a mic input of an Apollo 8. When I compare it to the Hi-Z input, it's a little hotter. Do you happen to have the Input level to set Neural DSP plugins to for that DI?
i think the best input level is the one that sounds the best????
@eds4754 Thank you for all your work on this. I'm sorry if others have been able to figure this out, but I find myself losing the handle. I'm using Amplitube 5 (I know they're not forthcoming with numbers) and iRig Pro Duo (max output 16dbu). In your other videos you say that AT5 is undergained and put the input slider at max (or add a boost pedal adding +17) to get decent sounds. But here you appear to be saying to set the gain on the physical interface to zero and then adding anywhere from 0 to 10 (from your responses to other comments here) on the input slider. I'm probably misunderstanding something but it sounds like two different pieces of advice.
Other questions:
What volume is your guitar at when you test? Full? Where you normally play?
People keep calling it a plugin which makes me think maybe this advice isn't for using AT5 as standalone? Should I be using something like Studio One (which I use for recording) with AT5 as a plugin and incorporate Studio One's gain somehow?
I'd be grateful for any insights, but either way thanks again for your work!
Universal Audio Volt2: Maximum Input Level: 12.5 dBu
Alright, say you had a whole bunch of guitars recorded straight into the interface (iD4) just before the clipping point, what would be the best way to decrease their DI gain to match the interface being at 0 ? Lowering the input of the plugin or using a gain plugin ? Or would either work the same ? Thank you, I've been experimenting with this all day.
hi ed, I asked kazrog what the entry level of ampcraft 1992 was and he told me the following: "The plugin was calibrated using DI track files that averaged – 23 dB RMS unprocessed, but there is enough headroom on tap that anything within +/- 3dB of that target should be fine for just about any purpose."
what is it supposed to mean?
The problem i have the the presonus 24c is that i don't know where 0 is. The pot goes from -15 on the left to 65 on the right, and no indication of where 0 actually is between those 2. Anyone got any ideas? Not sure if i'm just being an idiot. Can't find anything in the manual.
Any one using Focusrite 2i2 with Cubase and Amplitube?
What's your settings?
For Apollo Twin X users, the minimum hi-z gain is +10db, should i put a trimmer to make it 0 db, or just leave it at +10db?
Thanks for the research and resources you provide! They made a huge difference 🙂 Just curious if you have reached out to Blackstar about their St. James plugin? Really amazing amp sim.
Thanks!
Hi, what if I chained 1 drive pedal into the interface? For example any boss drive pedal like BD-2, OD-3, then how to plus/minus the input volume from the plugin based on my interface? Thanks in advance!
Thanks for this video. What about the dBu on Mixwave amps ie. Mixwave Mike Stringer?
I have a 10dBu Interface the Motu M2 – What should i do when i use STL "ToneHub" Please help me 😀 Thank your for your work man!
Hi, I'm using a Boss GT-10 as an interface with neural DSP plugins, what value do I have to set? I can't find the input level value, thanks
I have a Behringer UMC404HD. This is the specs in the manual:
Mic: -4 dBu / Line: +20 dBu / Instrument: -3 dBu
How should I navigate based on that info?
nice but, how about amplitube 5?
so I have a behringer umc202hd, states the instrument level input has a maximum input gain of -3 dBu on the instrument input, and then with the pad engaged that knocks off 20 db, so should I then be increasing my input in the neural dsp plugin to 4.8? I just tried it in archetype petrucci and it sounds good this way, but I just want to be sure i'm understanding correctly.
What about amplitube5? I used guitar rig a long time a go and i could get some very nice tones out of that one, but now i use focusrite scarlett 18i8 + amplitube 5, and i seem to have a hard time dialing in that nice guitar tone, that's warm and clear, and on the edge of breakup.
Hi again!
Regarding Kuassa, Input Level Table says 16.8 (motu m4) but Amplifikation 360 only goes up to 10, what is wrong?
Hola, amigo, te saludo desde la otra parte del mundo. He visto detalladamente muchos de tus vídeos (con el reto de traducir todo, ya que no está activado la opción de subtítulos).
Como comentas, la estructura de ganancia de los plugins no ha sido tomada con un interés alturado, mas, me encuentro con una cuestión que tal vez pueda ayudarnos (aunque cabe la posibilidad de equivocarme, aunque no lo creo). Revisando la lista que hiciste, tomaste en cuenta la interfaz AXE I/O – ONE, y escribes que esta interfaz, con la ganancia en mínimo, te arroja un valor de 10.5 dB, pero, revisando sus especificaciones técnicas, lo que menciona es que, estando con la perilla de ganancia al mínimo, SE NECECITAN 10.5 dB PARA LLEGAR AL LÍMITE SIN CLIPEAR (0 dBFS), entonces, esta interpretación, la de que en la perilla al mínimo te arroja 10.5 dB al mínimo, podría ser errónea, ya que, por lo menos hasta donde pude investigar, IK MULTIMEDIA (creadores de la interfaz), NO ha especificado explícitamente la cuantización de la ganancia de sus entradas TS.
Bueno, para concluir, escribo todo esto porque, al igual que tú, me hice la misma cuestión acerca del por qué suena relativamente mal las emulaciones de guitarra/bajo, en mi caso, cuando utilizo mi programa de plugins (AMPLITUBE 5), con mi interfaz AXE I/O (con la misma peculiaridad en torno al control de ganancia que la AXE I/O – ONE).
Me alegro mucho de haber encontrado tu canal y tus vídeos en la búsqueda de este conocimiento considerablemente desconocido.
Muchas gracias por compartir conocimiento y muchos saludos, amigo.
Atte. Un nuevo suscriptor.
P.D.: Los links con la información técnica de las interfaces
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/axeioone/index.php?p=specs (AXE I/O – ONE)
https://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/axeio/index.php?p=specs (AXE I/O)
Buscar en el apartado de especificaciones (Instrument Input).
Does anyone know the correct input gain for AuroraDSP, AudioAssault and Genome?
I have Focusrite Solo Gen2. Is 12.5 DB referring to the LINE input with the INSTRUMENT button pressed?
ggd studio cabinet. can you help seaching a input level ? because i want to use with neural dsp plugin
So whatever the manual to my input says is "max input level" is what I set my Interface too? This is good information and I'm trying to understand it (I'm a bit slow). Thanks for providing!
I don't understand how to get a proper level this way. I have a clarett 8pre x, preamp to zero and helix native input gain to +2.5 but that only gives me an input level of between -36 and max -24 which is really low / quietand the waveform is almost invisible? What should you do than to get this to get it between -12 and -6? increase the helix native output gain?
I have a focusrite 4th gen, when I press the button to put the channel in inst mode (I think) it automatically adds +7dB to the gain and can't set it to 0dB. So should I use this mode and then subtract -7dB on the plugin or not? Is there a difference in tone when using that mode?
Thank you for interesting information. Little question, what if i use Countryman 85 with my Motu m2. How can i calculate input lvl with it?
A small question, since I use a very old sound card, what input level would be optimal for the neural dsp? In the Daw it appears around -14db -17db, would this be an optimal level?
@eds4754 – thank you ever so much for all your efforts on this – I've got a couple of questions – would you be able to help please?
– do you know the best inout level for Bias Fx 2 and Amplitbe 3 please?
– i have a focusrite saffire interface. Even with the input knob at minimum the hi z input clips with a passive, well set up guitar. I think this is an accepted problem woth no way round it – have you come across this? Clutching at straws but thought you might know!
Hope ypu don't mind me reaching out – I'd really appreciate any help…