Do Tube Amps Still Matter?
Dipped In Tone has touched on the Great Amplification Wars before, but this episode is dedicated to the conflict, and to one nagging question: Do tube amps still matter?
Rhett and Zach have plenty of experience with modelers and profilers, from DI floor units to head-and-cab rigs to combos. They both readily admit that they sound killer in many contexts, and their convenience and dependability are hard to argue. So why do they think vintage valve amps still come out on top?
To answer that question, our hosts look at a range of factors, including dynamics, reactivity, and sonic fidelity. But the most important pieces are the physical feel and atmosphere that a cranked tube amp produces—it’s a nearly indescribable experience for Rhett, but watching him try is pretty entertaining. And while modelers can streamline inefficiencies, they can also create new ones, as Rhett learned during a busy day of gigging in Nashville with a pedalboard amp.
Even so, why should young players raised on digital amplification and the ease of direct-to-laptop home recording care about tube amps? Rhett and Zach make an impassioned, considered case for their favorite and most flexible tube boom boxes, modeling be damned. And stick around for news about a brand-new Mythos pedal.
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#Tube #Amps #Matter
Originally posted by UCXvZ2wM-HItEC_NRg0azI0Q at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcWfvL-ivrY
If a modelled spring reverb falls over in the forest, does it make a sound?
Ask a young person if they want to be able to have the sound of 1 amp at 100% feel or 20 amps at 95% feel.
An angle I didn’t see brought to light in the comments: Listen to yourselves. You keep saying, play a “good” tube this and that. As a 53 year old who isn’t in a “scene” where my buddies can bring a good one over, or tip me off to a “good” one going on the market, it’s incredibly frustrating. I get the appeal of a good amp but paying a premium for a new tube amp that the “tube experts” say isn’t good, withers my excitement. For example, @Zack has expressed many times that any new AC amp isn’t worth having.
If suddenly, you have to only play vintage, and “good” versions at that, I can see how the pool of fans diminish and will continue to do so as achievable vintage options dwindle.
Totally agree about silent stages, regardless of “aesthetics”. Looks aside, even if the drummer’s on e-drums, in smaller spaces you need at least a small amp on stage to drown out the sound of beaten Tupperware!
Boomer here. Not only are vintage tube amps my gold standard as a player, they’re my bread and butter as an amp tech. That said, you need at least 3 or 4 tube rigs of different sizes to gig out in all situations. Or maybe a couple plus an Ox box. Lots of players of all ages don’t have the space or $$$ to support a collection like Rhett’s. Most are lucky to have even ONE nice amp as a reference. That’s the reason for the popularity of modellers- even if you’re into old-school tones.
This man said he uses Threads. Twitter has gotten too bad for him to enjoy. ????
The POD sounds better than the Tone x from what I have heard from them.
Does Metallica still sounds like Metallica? They use axe effects now so it's all modeling. It's always hard to let go of the past. It use to be just amp and guitar and now it's amp, guitar and a pedal board it takes 2 roadies to carry. Now with the digital age you can have a dumble without owning a dumble. At the end of the day if your music sounds like you want what is the difference.
Bass player here. Yes, we have tone and love tone.
I used an SVT from the early 80s to the mid 2000s. Moved to an Ampeg tube pre, also an SVT 4 Pro.
I would rather play a modeller now. Plug straight into the PA. Play with headphones/in ears.
Less weight.
Less space.
Easier volume control.
Is it different from playing with my Ampeg behind me? Of course. I miss it.
To the audience, it doesn't fucking matter.
“Old man yells at ☁️ “
Hilarious.
Well, while I long for the convenience of modelers.
I’m not left wanting with my tube amps.
Back pain it is.
I have tried plug-ins and some modelers. Modelers are OK, but I just can't get any joy from plugins – I can get decent sounds from plug-ins- but I don't get any joy. I must be doing something wrong with them. But I love, love, love my Headstrong Lil King – plug in, turn on and play. Every time, whatever guitar, sounds awesome each and every time into the Headstrong. Nothing will ever beat that for me. Full disclosure – I am 53. I get that the Headstrong is an expensive amp – but I got a not too dis-similar feeling when I played through a Princeton reissue. The Headstrong is quieter (it is dead quiet) and sounds way better than the re-issue, but a player can get in the ballpark with the re-issue and aim to upgrade later. People gig with the Headstrong too.
Fractal tip the scales. Love my hand-wired tubies, love the new Fractal stuff.
I can never relate to this argument when I see it, because to me it’s obvious. Modelers are cheap and convenient, in a variety of ways. Tube amps, which are the things they’re modeling, are better when you can use them. By definition. There are a lot of reasons someone could prefer a modeler, but none of them have to do with how it sounds and feels to play one. So use modelers when you need to, and use the real thing when you can.
But I also recognize, due to all of the reasons modelers are more convenient, that it could get to the point where the market for amps becomes small enough that it isn’t viable anymore. That’s the big question to me. Technology has disrupted music in a million ways, more than any other area, and things are still scattered. It’s not clear where a lot of things will settle down.
There are so many low priced used tube and solid state amps. I think some of the people don’t realize their artist might record with real amps but tour with modelers. Many youth I see in the store are buying amps
I agree with Brett, modelers are not the same as real amps and will never be better. and real amps are better. Playing with plugs in and modelers only in your bed room makes it hard to go practice with real drummers, bass players. I think modelers are boring sounding and doesn’t sound as good. Maybe a generation of players who are mostly bed room players. You need stage sound.
I agree with Brett, modelers are not the same as real amps and will never be better. and real amps are better. Playing with plugs in and modelers only in your bed room makes it hard to go practice with real drummers, bass players. I think modelers are boring sounding and doesn’t sound as good. Maybe a generation of players who are mostly bed room players. You need stage sound.
Every time I hear somebody talk about "privilege" I puke in my mouth a little bit.
Every professional musician I know, including myself, prefers to play through a tube amp with proper stage volume.
If you’d rather drive a Kia instead of a Corvette because it’s smaller and gets better gas mileage I don’t know what to tell you…
Long live valve amps and long live rock!
it's about the tone stupid. If you are serious about it you struggle and strive. Nightshift cleaning, mopping up vomit, clean toilets whatever. I can't imagine playing electric guitar without my valve amp.
The modeler sounds fine here
Lets compare a real tube amp and a modeler in person and lets see how good the modeler sounds
All this irony coming from two cork sniffers who are call others gate-keepers gives me a chuckle. Yes, there are people, even pros who play night after night through a Helix or Quad Cortex, etc. Ozzy started the "remove amps from the stage" era when Randy was still around. Rush famously had chicken frying and washing machines, several bands had walls of fake Marshalls to give themselves cred. My tube amps are collecting dust, but I can't find it in my heart to sell them. Still, I can't remember a gig where I needed them in the last couple of years. While you're feeding your amps through an OX box or through mic'd cabs in another room, don't call out the poor blokes who are stuck in an apartment or tight neighborhood where playing loud is just not an option. Most of these folk are stuck on stages where space is a dying commodity and wait staff and patrons are tired of yelling over your inflated egos. My son (in his 20's) would rather go somewhere that someone can hear him talk, and while we jam at home as loud as we want, that's just not what people want anymore (unless you're a DJ with a bloated ego).
Some of these people not only don't have one of these amps, they couldn't access one without making a trek to another city just to give it a try. Both of you are in the industry and have access to things many people couldn't even hope to see much less play! Oh, just find a mid-60's blah blah blah… Sure, let me just go ask my friends at Guitar Center or local mom-and-pop that have nothing more 'vintage' than a 90's TSL. Come on. Be real. You're living in your little bubble, get out once in a while. Jeesh.
I was lucky enough to grow up with that stuff, and unlucky enough to have to lug it in a van from venue to venue. No thanks. Give me my Kemper Stage, throw an XLR to the sound system and I know that there's a consistent sound. And if you cared enough to hear yourself, you'd invest in an IEM system (much cheaper than any vintage amp) so you can hear anywhere on or off stage.
I love tube amps, but having to lug my own gear down the street to the venue and my age of 55 – I need light weight gear. It's a long night of play! I really enjoy my HX Stomp and Fender FR10. The venues we play don't want loud sounds due to older patrons not being able to order their food/drinks.
I started on loud Marshall stacks, moved to smaller heads and combos, and now I'm happy to lug a Kemper Stage, wear IEM's, and be completely noiseless on stage, and I'm only a couple years younger than Beato. I don't care to move backward, and it would seem that the "tube amp or die" people are more of the cork sniffing gate-keepers. I couldn't care less what works for someone else, I'm happy to stay with the tech when it comes to live shows.
Oh, the Tesla folks… Let's not forget there was a whole South Park episode dedicated to the Prius (aka Pius) owners, so let's just say there's always a clique. No, I don't own a Tesla, never would. But there are plenty of hybrid and EV options out there from which to choose. I'm still waiting for the VW micro-bus EV.
The best way to describe it is the tube amp is alive …..
I have a amp I can change tubes anytime and you can hear sounds change with different tubes the power tube and the pre amp tubes . 5 watt thd Pico Valve and drive it with a pedal sounds awesome….
The best thing is to is both so you are always searching for a better sound….
How many watts is the fireplace? ????
Yeah, you play the amp almost as much as you play the guitar.
During the shutdowns, as an "intro to tube amps" I found a used Blackstar HT-5R locally for $200. I figured if it didn't work I wouldn't lose too much. It would burp and fart and hum weird. I asked the amp tech at the shop where I bought it for an appointment for him to look at it and he suggested I replace the tubes first. I pulled the tubes out to double check the numbers and put them back in. Bingo! It sounded great. I live in a duplex so I don't crank it up unless the neighbors are gone, but I like playing it more than my Katana 50. And I really like playing the two amps together. I like the Blackstar clean and the Katana with effects. For me, it's perfect.